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Talk:Abdel Adrian
Sources I have a feeling this is a canon article relating to the Baldur's Gate novels, but to many who visit here, it will look like an article about the computer game. Please be careful when citing this article and, if necessary, split any non-canon statements into a non-canon section. Thanks! Fw190a8 21:57, 12 February 2007 (UTC) :Just noting... there are no non-canon appearances for Abdel. He is only included in the novels. That is why everybody hates those books so much. --DrizztTheSlayer 02:39, 22 February 2007 (UTC) ::Well, let's not forget that Athans is simply an awful writer... no, this is getting off topic. But there is a PC made out to be like Adrian in the ready-made TotSC save, except that his alignment is Good.Ville V. Kokko 18:49, 24 February 2007 (UTC) :I actually find it somewhat difficult to imagine how this would look like it pertains to the games. Maybe if one knows nothing about them. If one does know something, they'll see that Adrian should be the protagonist, and that obviously it will not be possible to say things like this about the protagonist. How would I indicate the sources (they being the novels) anyway? Ville V. Kokko 18:49, 24 February 2007 (UTC) :Well, it should be clear now, although I may also add a short discussion about his relationship to the game character at some point.Ville V. Kokko 23:21, 17 March 2007 (UTC) PLEASE NOTE: This character does not appear in the games (He is in the games but doesn't actually "appear") There's always someone editing or commenting to the effect that Adrian somehow appears in the games. He does not. The player character is entirely customised by the player, and still couldn't be like the protagonist of the novels, because in the games they have lived most of their lives so far in Candlekeep, but in the novel Adrian has been going around the world or whatever part of it as a mercenary before Gorion summons him back to Candlekeep so that they can escape it together. (Don't worry, the rest makes even less sense.) The fact that some berk put a protagonist called "Abdel" in the Tales of the Sword Coast save (blasphemy!) doesn't change this, nor does it give him official statistics. Now, last time someone edited to the effect that they knew what Adrian's alignment and class were in the third edition rules. I was so skeptical about that I just deleted it, but if you've actually got them, you can put them back with proper reference to the third-edition source you had. Ville V. Kokko 07:37, 1 September 2008 (UTC) To those who think Abdel's not in the game. He is actually in both Baldur's gate games. There's an Abdel in the Tales of the Sword Coast mission save and he's also in vanilla and expansion Baldur's gate 2 as a premade fighter. Fact is there's an Abdel in all the games, so you can't just ignore his existence. The PC in the games should also be referred to as "Abdel". Abdel's not in the game. There's simply a pre-made default fighter who has the name. Why should the PC in the games be referred to as Abdel because of that? Naming the PC "Gorion's Ward" or "Baalspawn" do the job just like with how in all the rest of Bioware's games, the protagonists are named by their titles rather than any default pre-made names. Keep in mind that recent Bioware games have "pre-made default" protagonists too (i.e John Shepard, Garrett Hawke) but these are for people who can't be bothered to customize their character and Abdel was that for Baldur's Gate's expansion and sequel. He may be canon for the novel but he's not for the games. -- 14:55, January 1, 2015 (UTC) Tiefling? Would it be fair to call Abdel Adrian a tiefling rather than a human? I know the way he's presented in the games (as the player) and in the books is a human (or elf/dwarf/gnome/etc) but by the definition of tiefling presented in the FRCS (3e) the mortal progeny of evil gods are tieflings. Would he, therefore, be considered a tiefling - simply not the kind with horns and a tail and the like? I'm interested in hearing what others have to say on this. Niirfa-sa 07:17, 24 September 2008 (UTC) : He's not a native outsider, so he fails the test. Besides, I think it would be a stretch, since in the book and game they classify him as a human. 13:23, 24 September 2008 (UTC) ::I understand that he goes by human - but let's face it, Bhaalspawn aren't human/elven/draconic/etc - they just look that way. They're demigods. As for whether or not he's a native outsider - do we know that he isn't? I haven't read the books, BTW, I'm just looking at it objectively and to me he seems to be as much a tiefling as any spawn of the Mulhorandi gods. I understand that the details aren't covered very well regarding Bhaalspawn. But who's to say that Abdel and the others aren't partially composed of the prime essence? Niirfa-sa 00:05, 25 September 2008 (UTC) :Bhaalspawn aren't "demigods", because that's a level of divine power, and they're mortals unless one were to specifically ascend. And they are technically whatever race they're given, as they have its properties (under 2nd ed rules), not a tiefling's. (I'm looking at the games. The novels obviously don't say much on this.) :Now, if the sources actually said that "the progeny of evil gods are tieflings by definition", I'd say that could be mentioned under Bhaalspawn ("Bhaalspawn weren't considered tieflings, but according to 3rd edition rules, they would also be classified such"), but it doesn't quite say that in the 3rd edition FRCS; it merely implies that that is the case with some offspring (probably not first-generation, either) of some Mulhorandi deities. And if they were demigods, they certainly wouldn't be tieflings. Tieflings have so much mortal blood that they're not even half-fiends anymore. Bhaalspawn are both more ordinary than them (in that they count as their "other" race for most purposes) and less so (in that Bhaal's essence is in them and can have some quite spectacular effects eventually). Ville V. Kokko 04:59, 25 September 2008 (UTC) :He is Bhaalspawn. He isn't demigod, tiefling, or any other of those. Bhaalspawn were designed with a specific purpose. If I may, "There can be only one". They are supposed to fight their way to the top, absorbing eachother's power until they are powerful enough to ascend. Obviously they don't HAVE to kill and absorb ALL other Bhaalspawn because you have a bunch that survive, and a bunch that were bound to have been killed by others. Either way, though, that's what it boils down to. Bhaalspawn are a class of being unto themselves. Humans, elves, dwarves, etc., don't generally spontaneously gain the ability to heal wounds or whatever. Possible re-canonisation? Well, What if someone wrote a new novelisation of the game, with better parties, better endings, better writing, as a better author and of course, a btter protagonist! (Abdel Adrian seems like if Athans pressed *recommend* all the time in BG1 and then used the most stupid names at hand...) My Idea of a main char could actually work well (won't tell ya, it can be stolen), well, he is deeper than Adrian's hack-and-slash personality. smarter, and is following the game more!!! Group idea: Main character Imoen (of course) Jaheira and Khalid (Gorion tells ya to find them) Minsc and Dynaheir (Bg2 presumes you had them)(Don't forget Boo, unless that's what the readers would shout, hehe...) * Not a bad idea necessarily, but purely speculative (and doesn't really belong here). Actually, to throw my own gratuitous idea in I always have thought BG could make a pretty good movie if done right.Niirfa-sa 10:54, December 19, 2009 (UTC) Yeah, you'r right, but both a book and a movie following it would be better, This and the start of this discussion about canonisation was my first messages (sorry if this is spam, just figuring out how this page works, I will delete all identical stuff over this, thanks for having patience with a noob..., /Lawisendro, how do I have my name show???) A question about the pc in BG How much did Gorion allow you to go outside the keep, I am writing a novel about the game and my charcter is thinking of the memories he had in Candlekeep and with Gorion, how much did he leave the keep? ((I know this is not the best place to post this, but Abdel is the main char (Sadly) and I thought it would work out)) Lawisendro 18:23, December 22, 2009 (UTC) The main character does not leave the keep at all. --Cliffracerslayer 10:24, February 3, 2011 (UTC) Straighten things up, shall we? Some words that may be good to know: Tiefling: Tieflings are human-based planetouched, native outsiders that are infused with the touch of the fiendish planes, most often through descent from fiends — demons, devils, evil deities, and others who have bred with humans.2 Tieflings are known for their cunning and personal allure, which makes them excellent deceivers as well as inspiring leaders when prejudices are laid aside.3 Although their evil ancestors may be many generations removed, the taint lingers. Unlike half-fiends, tieflings are not predisposed to evil alignments and vary in alignment nearly as widely as full humans, though tieflings are certainly devious.4 The celestial counterparts of tieflings are called aasimar. (Right, he's not a tiefling, nor is he an aasimar) Demigod: Demigods, also known as Exarchs are considered the first rung on the ladder of the gods. As gods, they are immortal and capable of granting spells to the clerics of the roughly 300 to 3,000 worshippers that typically pray to a deity of such power. Due to their very natures, demigods represent a very narrow and restricted ideal or aspect of existence. This means only a certain group of mortals will consider the demigod suitable for worship, until either the ideals that the demigod embodies become more popular or the demigod is given or takes the portfolios of other deities. (neither a demigod...) BHAALSPAWN: Bhaalspawn is the name given to the mortal offspring of the now dead god Bhaal. It is said that Bhaal foresaw his death during the Time of Troubles and came to Toril before the climactic event, mating with females of almost any species, not all of them humanoid. Like Bane, he would attempt to use these offspring to bring himself back to life. Alaundo made a prophecy about the Bhaalspawn that foretold the great destruction they would bring. (Right... that's it, eh? Bhaalspawn, a special race, got it?) Article edits to reflect MiBG more? Going on the backstory we're given for Abdel in Murder in Baldur's Gate, it seems like THAT Abdel is still a different one than THIS Abdel from the novels. Or, at the very least, if it's the same character, they just retconned some aspects of it to fit closer to the game (and make him less of a crappy individual). The way I've heard it before, rule of thumb is that new lore trumps old lore, so maybe some updates/adjustments need made to the article to make it a little more...favorable? Daft inquisitor (talk) 04:28, August 5, 2018 (UTC) :This, combined with the 5e appearances of Minsc, seem to me to indicate that the Baldur's Gate novels are being mostly disregarded by Wizards. I think the easiest way to solve the discrepancy is to merge this article with Gorion's Ward and disregard the novels, adding only details that are corroborated in later works. The issue with that solution is it would conflict with this wiki's canon policy. I think it's the most elegant way to approach the mess of Baldur's Gate canon, however. --Ir'revrykal (talk) 06:48, August 5, 2018 (UTC)